I too feel that he is a narcissistic idiot who thought he would be found innocent, or he had really crappy legal advice. I think what he did was horrendous and deserves punishment but I feel 10 years is really too harsh. I know he will more then likely only serve 3 but still.
Ellis has gone off most recently on millennials not being able to deal with bullying because of the culture created by his generation. He seems to ignore that there is a huge difference between everybody in little league getting a trophy so nobody feels bad and the fact one guy thought it was okay shooting his roommate engage in intimacy and tell people to watch it on the internet. Ellis just comes off incredibly self-loathing.
How is it racist? Except for the fact Tyler on an IM chat connected Dharun to an Indian stereotype there was nothing going on to indicate race had anything to do with it. For Tyler's single comment, Ravi had dozens of homophobic comments not just targeted at Tyler but also his so-called friends, some of whom did not look fondly at his character during the investigation. Molly Wei included who smartly took the plea deal.
From reading the articles it sounds like Ravi and Ravi's family were under the impression there was not enough to go against him. He didn't even want to leave campus when Rutgers staff and administration advised him to leave when the information was coming out. He wanted to 'defend his honor'. The family was also not under the belief that his deportation in the plea deal would stick and that the prosecution would just recommend no deportation. I've heard of people being deported for far less than this verdict but Ravi and his family just wanted a not guilty verdict. I just don't think Ravi was ever really open with his family for them to realize how much of his character was going to be questioned during the whole trial and how much it was a detriment to his case. Now I have no idea if that lack of openness included sexuality but even the article that was somewhat relating Ravi's actions to his immaturity went into detail on how much 'gay on the brain' he would just casually bring into any discussion or action.
The fantasist in me wonders that if Ravi had been the one suffering from mental illness and felt particularly hard hit by his new roommate's tweet making fun of his Indian ethnicity and referring to his parents as people who looked like they owned a 7-11 (documented in the lengthy New Yorker article), if prosecutors would have insinuated Tyler were in some way responsible for the death and gone after him? I mean, it wouldn't have come in the middle of a perfect storm the way the Clementi suicide did, in the midst of all the talk about bullying and the It Gets Better campaign in the era of GLAAD, but still, I can't help thinking about it.
Did Ravi find out about it before or after Tyler died? I do know the first time I learned about 'Ravi's parents probably own a Dunkin' Donuts' comment was during the trial. Just like the revelations that Tyler was out to his parents with his father being supportive but his mother was not (I think she came around to his sexuality very late and since his brother James has come out is not as close-minded but has understandably remained private). I am mentioning this because I am wondering if Ravi's lawyers were trying to make it a point that Tyler's issues were not so tied to Ravi's treatment of him and also removing the martyr status from Tyler's suicide.
The New Yorker article is actually surprisingly sympathetic to Ravi. It also includes the details of the plea bargain he turned down. Sounds to me like the lawyer was the one who was overly confident:
Before the end of May, Ravi was offered a plea bargain for a three-to-five-year sentence; he rejected it. A second offer was made in December: no jail time, an effort to protect him against deportation, and six hundred hours of community service. This, too, was rejected. “You want to know why?” Steven Altman, Ravi’s lawyer, said to reporters, outside the courthouse, on December 9th. “Simple answer, simple principle of law, simple principle of life: he’s innocent.”
And can we please ignore Bret Easton Ellis? His opinion on this matter is irrelevant.
I just feel this Dan Savage article from two years ago, replete with inaccurate references to the other 'boy" in the room with Clementi that were cleared up in the interim, comes closest to my feeling of unsettlement after this verdict. I feel that by jumping on board with this bloodthirsty response toward the dickwad who spied on him, we let the much larger cultural forces, institutional and individual, that contribute to gay youth suicide off the hook. This requires a more sophisticated analysis than the good folks at GLAAD are capable of, but I think it can happen and should have happened before the trial.
Were there others who contributed to this environment that was so toxic to Tyler and who heaved a sigh of relief when Ravi became the focal point? I wonder. As for the people cheering the verdict, has he come to represent in abstentia everybody who ever treated any of us badly because of our perceived differentness?
Taz, I also think Namo brought up some good points. In addition, I was wondering whether there would even be a trial if Tyler hadn't committed suicide.
But we should also remember that Ravi wasn't charged with being responsible for Clementi's death.
I agree with his not being charged. We don't know what else happened. Maybe his mom said something or whatever. It was a factor but not the whole thing. I like to refer to it as "the straw that broke the camel's back".
In addition, I was wondering whether there would even be a trial if Tyler hadn't committed suicide.
That's a good question. There might have been but it probably wouldn't have gotten the attention that this did. Tyler and his family could have filed a civil suit citing invasion of privacy if they thought of it. I do believe there would have been consequences with the school though. What Ravi did has to break all sorts of "Honor Code" rules.
I do wonder if it did not involve a death would it just be the school trying to control it from getting public and dealing with it themselves. Schools really would rather to take control of these matters, which at times are not progressive or do not do their job to promote a safe campus environment. This is especially the case with sexual assaults on college campuses.
I really wanted to know what were the ramifications, if any, for Ravi's actions aside from the room change. It sounded like it went to the RA who reported to somebody and it got lost in the bureaucracy. I know people who work at Rutgers and people who work with Rutgers faculty. Based on what they have said over the years, I really am skeptical that the administration would have handled this case, the invasion of privacy, the right way.
I've now read the New Yorker article and I'm glad it sets some of the facts straight, but god my frist takeaway is that I'm chilledawed by the the way you can reconstruct so much stuff through the stuff those kids posted online over the years.
I've been struggling all day to decide how much of my own personal bias is playing in to how I feel about all this. I don't think of Ravi as a stand in for the myriad people over the years who've threatened, mocked or assaulted me because of my being gay over the years, but I still just can't muster up all that much compassion for Ravi. I don't know if the sentence is fair or not. I really don't. I don't believe he directly caused the kid's death, but the actual stuff he was convicted of still seems pretty sound. The invasion of privacy, and particularly the part about evidence tampering. It seems like Ravi really knew he'd ****ed up and was scrambling to scrub has much of it as he could from the internet as the **** hit the fan. At least that's another thing I took from the article, which I thought was pretty damning.
The "dunkin donuts" IM in the article did make me cringe, but I still think it differs from what Ravi did. Clementi's casual racism over IM doesn't lessen the douchery of Ravi's early tweets about how his new roommate was gay, at least to me.
I see what you're saying, Phyl. What I can't understand is why people are feeling such glee as if he actually was convicted for crimes he wasn't charged with. And everywhere I look on my social networking arenas, people I love and people they love are talking about how a conviction and prison term automatically means Ravi is going to be raped and so, you know, that's just what is to be expected and that's a good thing.
I know I am conflating separate issues here, and there needs to be a larger cultural discussion that prison rape is not only not okay, it's not funny. I just can't help but conclude that this glee is because Ravi has become a proxy in the way many people seem to think the conviction is essentially for a murder.
Gotcha. I agree that any sort of glee over this is the wrong reaction, and I agree you about prison rape and the unfunny jokes that always seem to accompany stories of a man going to jail. My Facebook didn't really make much noise, except for a couple of friends expressing a similar ambivalence to mine.
I don't have a problem with 10 years and/or deportation at all. The whole "it was just a prank" angle is the worst excuse ever. It wasn't just a prank. Ravi made very specific decisions to publicly humiliate his roommate on a pretty big scale with malicious intent. Then he tried to cover his tracks when his victim committed suicide which proves he knew what he did was wrong and that it possibly was the cause of the suicide. He showed no remorse. And he turned down a ridiculously sweet plea bargain.
Lerner-Z, did you mean "Less Than Zero" to connect with BEE's best known work? i am really disappointed in his tweet, as his writing style seems so assured and thoughtful...perhaps he is better at writing with refraction instead of impulsive soundbiting...or perhaps he had genius editors who shaped his work.
This whole thing is so very shameful, with so many instances of "if only someone had..." that the issues can get really cloudy. If ANYTHING of value came out of the whole tragic situation, it's how carefully the officers of the court and the jury parsed the language and intent of the law...a fascinating battle between "letter" and "spirit" to try and salvage any positive outcome possible. Their diligent work, even if you don't agree with every detail of it, may lay slow groundwork for how hate crime/bias cases are tried in the future...the long evolution of civil rights, which take a hella lot of patience.
It is only through civil debate about civil rights, where we can let our understandable human empathy toward one "side" or the other go, that we can begin to make a code of conduct and consequences we can all at least respect...when it is applied as impartially as possible. it is very hard to put aside our subjective need for "vengeance" or "justice" in order to see objectively what might be best for the general populace in the long run...but it is vital.
I'm never going to regret not taking the plea. If I took the plea, I would have had to testify that I did what I did to intimidate Tyler and that would be a lie. I won't ever get up there and tell the world I hated Tyler because he was gay, or tell the world I was trying to hurt or intimidate him because it's not true.
...I was an insignificant part of his life. That's what's giving me comfort now. Ravi Speaks
I won't ever get up there and tell the world I hated Tyler because he was gay, or tell the world I was trying to hurt or intimidate him because it's not true.
If he truly believes that, then he should be committed to a mental institution.
He believes it, Matt. I'm not sure if he's believed it all along, or if he's convinced himself to believe it, but he does. I caught the preview of tonight's interview on the news last night. It certainly won't win him any sympathizers. He's arrogant and aloof. He wouldn't take the deal because it would mean admitting to a hate crime. And based on what I saw from the little bit of the interview (I plan to DVR it and watch it later), he seems to have believed that he would be completely exonerated. My fiance (in his last year of medical school for psychiatry) thinks he exhibits signs of sociopathy.
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Posted: 3/16/12 at 03:50pm